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Bill Duncan January 7, 2009 at 2:55 pm

Travis –

Most of the clients that I work with have a two-level structure: there is an account executive (also called account manager, client officer, or similar) who is separate from the project manager for major engagements and/or major clients. The PM performs that role only for smaller projects.

I’m also quite surprised by the small sample of industries interviewed. Hardly representative.

Duncan

William R. Duncan, Project Management Partners
Primary author of the original version of “A Guide to the Project Management Body of Knowledge”
Board Chair, PMCert, the independent certification body of asapm

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Bill Duncan January 7, 2009 at 8:55 am

Travis –

Most of the clients that I work with have a two-level structure: there is an account executive (also called account manager, client officer, or similar) who is separate from the project manager for major engagements and/or major clients. The PM performs that role only for smaller projects.

I’m also quite surprised by the small sample of industries interviewed. Hardly representative.

Duncan

William R. Duncan, Project Management Partners
Primary author of the original version of “A Guide to the Project Management Body of Knowledge”
Board Chair, PMCert, the independent certification body of asapm

Reply

Glen B. Alleman January 7, 2009 at 5:09 pm

In our firm, we have several roles. Mine is the Practice Director. I define and deploy our practices: Deliverables Based Planning(sm). There is a Delivery Director, who looks after the field staff, the customer satisfaction, and general cook and bottle washer. On the ground are Project and Program Managers or Program Controls staff. They are on the delivery end.
BUT, the PM’s (project and program) are also accountable for buiness development. This is a standard consulting firm model, from Booz Allen to our 50 person firm.
The Project Managers primary role in ALL our engagement is th “assure the project remains ‘sold’.” These measn of course successful project process delievrables, but it also means customer satisfaction through relationship management.
Performing only the PM processes in the absence of this means someone else nees to be the “account manager.” And most critically the PM looses her seat at the table when it comes to decisions around the business.
Relagating the PM to menchanics of the method turns Project Management into a clerical role. This is the problem I see over again in the field.
Large construction firms, aerospace and defense, ERP have succesfully moved away from this technition approach and moved PM into a Business Management process.

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Glen B. Alleman January 7, 2009 at 11:09 am

In our firm, we have several roles. Mine is the Practice Director. I define and deploy our practices: Deliverables Based Planning(sm). There is a Delivery Director, who looks after the field staff, the customer satisfaction, and general cook and bottle washer. On the ground are Project and Program Managers or Program Controls staff. They are on the delivery end.
BUT, the PM’s (project and program) are also accountable for buiness development. This is a standard consulting firm model, from Booz Allen to our 50 person firm.
The Project Managers primary role in ALL our engagement is th “assure the project remains ‘sold’.” These measn of course successful project process delievrables, but it also means customer satisfaction through relationship management.
Performing only the PM processes in the absence of this means someone else nees to be the “account manager.” And most critically the PM looses her seat at the table when it comes to decisions around the business.
Relagating the PM to menchanics of the method turns Project Management into a clerical role. This is the problem I see over again in the field.
Large construction firms, aerospace and defense, ERP have succesfully moved away from this technition approach and moved PM into a Business Management process.

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Dr. Paul D. Giammalvo January 7, 2009 at 9:05 pm

Hi Travis,
In our relatively small, entrepreneurial company, the account manager IS the prorgam/project manager. We are set up so that the person who makes the sale is accountable “end to end”- from making the sale to collecting the final payment. I believe this is similar to Greg’s posting about Booz, Allen and Hamilton.

We find this prevents the “sales people” from making promises that are impossible for the project people to keep.

We also find that by linking the compensation of the sales force to profitability and NOT commission based only or primarily on the value of the contract, helps ensure the account managers cum sales force are focused on achieving business objectives favorable to the company and not to making unprofitable or losing sales.

Our training and consulting advice is based around these principles simply because we know they work, not only for training and consulting, but when I was a General Contractor (construction) as well.

BR,
Dr. PDG, Jakarta

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Dr. Paul D. Giammalvo January 7, 2009 at 3:05 pm

Hi Travis,
In our relatively small, entrepreneurial company, the account manager IS the prorgam/project manager. We are set up so that the person who makes the sale is accountable “end to end”- from making the sale to collecting the final payment. I believe this is similar to Greg’s posting about Booz, Allen and Hamilton.

We find this prevents the “sales people” from making promises that are impossible for the project people to keep.

We also find that by linking the compensation of the sales force to profitability and NOT commission based only or primarily on the value of the contract, helps ensure the account managers cum sales force are focused on achieving business objectives favorable to the company and not to making unprofitable or losing sales.

Our training and consulting advice is based around these principles simply because we know they work, not only for training and consulting, but when I was a General Contractor (construction) as well.

BR,
Dr. PDG, Jakarta

Reply

Bill Duncan January 8, 2009 at 12:44 pm

I found Paul’s and Glen’s comments interesting. Some reactions:
– The PM always has a place at the table for business issues with the clients that I was referring to. But the PM has divided loyalties: what is best for this project may not be best for the long term relationship. Having an account manager to complement the PM seems to be a good solution.
– If the PM must also be the sales person, then that person must split their professional development between the two. While there is a lot of overlap (one of my consulting engineering clients insists that all of their salespeople must have worked as PMs first), this still suggests that an individual with two roles will be less skilled at either than one who focuses.
– My experience with a “Booz-Allen” style structure came some years ago with the consulting group at Touche Ross. The partner was nominally the project manager on all projects, but partners spent most of their time selling. They would drop in from time to time to check on things, but they did little or nothing in the way of hands-on project management. And the role of PM there included identifying additional opportunities for more business.

Duncan

William R. Duncan, Project Management Partners
Primary author of the original version of “A Guide to the Project Management Body of Knowledge”
Board Chair, PMCert, the independent certification body of asapm

Reply

Bill Duncan January 8, 2009 at 6:44 am

I found Paul’s and Glen’s comments interesting. Some reactions:
– The PM always has a place at the table for business issues with the clients that I was referring to. But the PM has divided loyalties: what is best for this project may not be best for the long term relationship. Having an account manager to complement the PM seems to be a good solution.
– If the PM must also be the sales person, then that person must split their professional development between the two. While there is a lot of overlap (one of my consulting engineering clients insists that all of their salespeople must have worked as PMs first), this still suggests that an individual with two roles will be less skilled at either than one who focuses.
– My experience with a “Booz-Allen” style structure came some years ago with the consulting group at Touche Ross. The partner was nominally the project manager on all projects, but partners spent most of their time selling. They would drop in from time to time to check on things, but they did little or nothing in the way of hands-on project management. And the role of PM there included identifying additional opportunities for more business.

Duncan

William R. Duncan, Project Management Partners
Primary author of the original version of “A Guide to the Project Management Body of Knowledge”
Board Chair, PMCert, the independent certification body of asapm

Reply

Dr. Paul D. Giammalvo January 8, 2009 at 1:07 pm

Hi Bill,
To clarify or elaborate a bit, I would agree that in most engineering and construction organizations, the sales force or account managers are usually drawn from the ranks of project managers.

From my days as a GC, when the project managers were not on a project, they were almost always recruited to be a key part of the sales team. So while they may have had dual roles, rarely were those roles occuring simultanously.

I think it worth clarifying that in most small to medium sized organizations, everyone is expected to be able to wear more than one hat, and my comments as posted probably weren’t as clear as they could/should have been.

BR,
Dr. PDG, Jakarta

Reply

Dr. Paul D. Giammalvo January 8, 2009 at 7:07 am

Hi Bill,
To clarify or elaborate a bit, I would agree that in most engineering and construction organizations, the sales force or account managers are usually drawn from the ranks of project managers.

From my days as a GC, when the project managers were not on a project, they were almost always recruited to be a key part of the sales team. So while they may have had dual roles, rarely were those roles occuring simultanously.

I think it worth clarifying that in most small to medium sized organizations, everyone is expected to be able to wear more than one hat, and my comments as posted probably weren’t as clear as they could/should have been.

BR,
Dr. PDG, Jakarta

Reply

Dr. Paul D. Giammalvo January 8, 2009 at 1:33 pm

One additional point, Bill.

In re: Booz Allen model. As we implement it, the Account Manager cum Project Manager is responsible for the initiation, planning, controlling and closing processes, but the actual execution is the responsibility of the project leader/project team.

And as you noted, sometimes, what is best for the long term relationship is NOT best for the project, and it is the account manager who has to decide whether to sacrifice all or part of the project objectives for the sake of the relationship, or is it better to walk away from the client.

That gets back to the strategic responsibility of the Asset or Account Manager as opposed to the tactical responsibilities of the Project Manager.

Explained another way, I see the Account Manager as being “more” of a business person than I do the Project Manager, putting the Account Manager as the more responsible or accountable person in the organization.

Reply

Dr. Paul D. Giammalvo January 8, 2009 at 7:33 am

One additional point, Bill.

In re: Booz Allen model. As we implement it, the Account Manager cum Project Manager is responsible for the initiation, planning, controlling and closing processes, but the actual execution is the responsibility of the project leader/project team.

And as you noted, sometimes, what is best for the long term relationship is NOT best for the project, and it is the account manager who has to decide whether to sacrifice all or part of the project objectives for the sake of the relationship, or is it better to walk away from the client.

That gets back to the strategic responsibility of the Asset or Account Manager as opposed to the tactical responsibilities of the Project Manager.

Explained another way, I see the Account Manager as being “more” of a business person than I do the Project Manager, putting the Account Manager as the more responsible or accountable person in the organization.

Reply

John Mucci January 5, 2010 at 3:57 pm

While I have been a project manager and producer for more than 15 years, I have lately been finding that account people at agencies feel they are PMs, even when they obviously are not, and cause great friction between members of the team. These AEs are good as sales people, and good at client-relationships, and even good keeping a schedule, but they do not understand how to work with a technical team, or a PM, and end up either doing end-runs, directly with the client, or making decisions that affect the team without consensus. I love the idea of PMs as AEs! I just find itr so seldom in the NY area. Has anyone out there had a similar problem? I have had this issue with at least 5 agencies. One AE even very directly said to me: “We don’t need you.”

Reply

John Mucci January 5, 2010 at 10:57 am

While I have been a project manager and producer for more than 15 years, I have lately been finding that account people at agencies feel they are PMs, even when they obviously are not, and cause great friction between members of the team. These AEs are good as sales people, and good at client-relationships, and even good keeping a schedule, but they do not understand how to work with a technical team, or a PM, and end up either doing end-runs, directly with the client, or making decisions that affect the team without consensus. I love the idea of PMs as AEs! I just find itr so seldom in the NY area. Has anyone out there had a similar problem? I have had this issue with at least 5 agencies. One AE even very directly said to me: “We don’t need you.”

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